Everyone gets that quote wrong. It's not, "God will not be mocked, so all you mockers better watch out bcs he's gonna smite you." That's not what it says, and not what it means.
"Be not deceived; God IS not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."
It's a statement about the nature of God and our existence in relationship with him. The context is important. In Galatians 6:7-8, Paul is speaking about sowing and reaping, a metaphor for the inevitable consequences of one’s actions: "For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."
"God IS not mocked" no matter how much mocking you think you're doing; it just comes whipping back in your own face - not because of any smiting or vengefulness by a tetchy and ill-tempered God who takes offence personally. It's about the inevitability of consequences, what happens when you try to defy the created order of reality; it's stamping on a rake. You cannot trick God or manipulate spiritual realities by your actions or intentions.
Greek word used here for “mocked” (μυκτηρίζεται, myktērizetai) literally means "to turn up the nose at" or "to sneer at." It has nothing to do with a vengeful deity; it's about how attempting to live contrary to God’s design is ultimately pointless. You might sneer at God’s law, but you can’t change the natural and moral order that God has established. Trying to do so only damages the person trying it. God can't be hurt by anything we do.
Given all that understanding, is it not obvious that God IS mocked all the time and we DON’T see people reaping the results of that?
Where are the consequences?
I understand you may think this is misquoting or misunderstanding the text, but the question is: does that text comport with reality?
Usually when someone is talking about the “order of reality” they’re talking about the teleology, what things are ordered “towards”, where they are moving from privation to fulfillment. The observed nature of the universe clashes with teleology because entropy and destruction are the actual end of all things we see.
No, you’re misunderstanding. No one expects visible smiting but why isn’t there any obvious consequences to defying the perceived order? Why are the mockers blessed? Why are the holy harmed? Even the Bible asks this in Isaiah 57 for example.
You’re indicating the Bible says that the consequences still happen but we don’t know how or when. That’s just a divine “trust me bro”
You’re appealing to an order of nature that is contrary to observation. Paul is attempting to do the same thing you are: communicate that the consequences will occur. Somehow, some time.
But that generation DID pass away before ANY of these things happened.
The point isn’t to argue over the sense of the words, the question is why do we think that they are at all true? You can use the same words to justify both readings and they lead to opposite conclusions. So why does it even matter?
So, "Why do good things happen to bad people?" is what you're asking. The Problem of Evil. If God is good, why does He allow human evil?
I believe there has been some writing on this by the saints. Maybe look it up.
No, that's not what either Paul or I are saying. God IS not mocked, because of His nature. The mockers aren't doing anything to God, not disproving His nature or His law; their attempts don't actually affect anything.
So we are disappointed that God didn't rain down fire & brimstone when God was mocked? He who was reviled did not revile...1 Peter 2:23
Maybe one day we will learn the Way, the Truth and the Life (or is it light - I always get those mixed up) and I write "we", because we are all in this together, whether we like it or not.
He doesn’t rain down fire & brimstone when he’s mocked. He doesn’t help people who pray to him. He only does things that are indistinguishable from random chance. Either God is a huge fan of stochastics or he’s indiscernible from noise.
I think it’s healthy to step away and look at it objectively. The normal churched response is for the petitioner to blame themselves for praying “wrong” - it’s a pathway to religious OCD.
Indeed. When the Samaritans would not allow Jesus and the Apostles to pass through their territory, James and John wanted to call down fire from heaven to destroy them (Luke 9:54). Jesus rebuked them and He and the Apostles went another way.
Do we imagine there to be some great virtue in this restraint? Will God truly be merciful to those of us whose faith was shattered on the sharp edged scandals of this pontificate, which seem to disprove everything we’ve ever been taught?
I’m so tired of the excuses we make for a God who never holds up his end of the bargain.
Why are you willing to give a pass to a man who not only tried to redefine the faith in his own image but actively taught sin? If you don't believe that, read the following piece I wrote:
With all due respect, people who think as you do use "Christian charity" as an excuse *not* to confront evil. And Francis was evil. This is why the Catholic Church has become a moral cesspool, and I'm not just talking about clerical sex abuse. I'm talking about supporting the perpetrators of evil over the victims of evil. I'm talking about ignoring the victims of crime (such as Laken Riley) committed by illegal migrants for the sake of turning immigrants into a protected class to promote the church's political agenda. I'm talking about disregarding murder victims and their families for the sake of promoting JPII's unilateral, arbitrary teaching on capital punishment for murder (read this article I wrote to find out what I'm talking about: https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/3460-killing-capital-punishment-how-pope-john-paul-set-precedent-for-pope-francis).
How does any of this nonsense promote the "common good" that Catholic prelates and intellectuals love to talk about?
Everyone gets that quote wrong. It's not, "God will not be mocked, so all you mockers better watch out bcs he's gonna smite you." That's not what it says, and not what it means.
"Be not deceived; God IS not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."
It's a statement about the nature of God and our existence in relationship with him. The context is important. In Galatians 6:7-8, Paul is speaking about sowing and reaping, a metaphor for the inevitable consequences of one’s actions: "For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."
"God IS not mocked" no matter how much mocking you think you're doing; it just comes whipping back in your own face - not because of any smiting or vengefulness by a tetchy and ill-tempered God who takes offence personally. It's about the inevitability of consequences, what happens when you try to defy the created order of reality; it's stamping on a rake. You cannot trick God or manipulate spiritual realities by your actions or intentions.
Greek word used here for “mocked” (μυκτηρίζεται, myktērizetai) literally means "to turn up the nose at" or "to sneer at." It has nothing to do with a vengeful deity; it's about how attempting to live contrary to God’s design is ultimately pointless. You might sneer at God’s law, but you can’t change the natural and moral order that God has established. Trying to do so only damages the person trying it. God can't be hurt by anything we do.
Given all that understanding, is it not obvious that God IS mocked all the time and we DON’T see people reaping the results of that?
Where are the consequences?
I understand you may think this is misquoting or misunderstanding the text, but the question is: does that text comport with reality?
Usually when someone is talking about the “order of reality” they’re talking about the teleology, what things are ordered “towards”, where they are moving from privation to fulfillment. The observed nature of the universe clashes with teleology because entropy and destruction are the actual end of all things we see.
So you didn't pay the slightest attention to anything I wrote. "Ok, but why isn't God smiting the mockers?"
No, you’re misunderstanding. No one expects visible smiting but why isn’t there any obvious consequences to defying the perceived order? Why are the mockers blessed? Why are the holy harmed? Even the Bible asks this in Isaiah 57 for example.
You’re indicating the Bible says that the consequences still happen but we don’t know how or when. That’s just a divine “trust me bro”
You’re appealing to an order of nature that is contrary to observation. Paul is attempting to do the same thing you are: communicate that the consequences will occur. Somehow, some time.
But that generation DID pass away before ANY of these things happened.
The point isn’t to argue over the sense of the words, the question is why do we think that they are at all true? You can use the same words to justify both readings and they lead to opposite conclusions. So why does it even matter?
So, "Why do good things happen to bad people?" is what you're asking. The Problem of Evil. If God is good, why does He allow human evil?
I believe there has been some writing on this by the saints. Maybe look it up.
No, that's not what either Paul or I are saying. God IS not mocked, because of His nature. The mockers aren't doing anything to God, not disproving His nature or His law; their attempts don't actually affect anything.
So we are disappointed that God didn't rain down fire & brimstone when God was mocked? He who was reviled did not revile...1 Peter 2:23
Maybe one day we will learn the Way, the Truth and the Life (or is it light - I always get those mixed up) and I write "we", because we are all in this together, whether we like it or not.
He doesn’t rain down fire & brimstone when he’s mocked. He doesn’t help people who pray to him. He only does things that are indistinguishable from random chance. Either God is a huge fan of stochastics or he’s indiscernible from noise.
I think it’s healthy to step away and look at it objectively. The normal churched response is for the petitioner to blame themselves for praying “wrong” - it’s a pathway to religious OCD.
This. 100%
It might not necessarily be religious OCD, but it’s most definitely religious codependency.
Indeed. When the Samaritans would not allow Jesus and the Apostles to pass through their territory, James and John wanted to call down fire from heaven to destroy them (Luke 9:54). Jesus rebuked them and He and the Apostles went another way.
Do we imagine there to be some great virtue in this restraint? Will God truly be merciful to those of us whose faith was shattered on the sharp edged scandals of this pontificate, which seem to disprove everything we’ve ever been taught?
I’m so tired of the excuses we make for a God who never holds up his end of the bargain.
So much hatred! Lack of Christian charity! Why do you hate Pope Francis so much?
Why are you willing to give a pass to a man who not only tried to redefine the faith in his own image but actively taught sin? If you don't believe that, read the following piece I wrote:
https://stream.org/queering-the-catholic-church/
With all due respect, people who think as you do use "Christian charity" as an excuse *not* to confront evil. And Francis was evil. This is why the Catholic Church has become a moral cesspool, and I'm not just talking about clerical sex abuse. I'm talking about supporting the perpetrators of evil over the victims of evil. I'm talking about ignoring the victims of crime (such as Laken Riley) committed by illegal migrants for the sake of turning immigrants into a protected class to promote the church's political agenda. I'm talking about disregarding murder victims and their families for the sake of promoting JPII's unilateral, arbitrary teaching on capital punishment for murder (read this article I wrote to find out what I'm talking about: https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/3460-killing-capital-punishment-how-pope-john-paul-set-precedent-for-pope-francis).
How does any of this nonsense promote the "common good" that Catholic prelates and intellectuals love to talk about?
All I can say is, read the book of Revelation.
Do you seriously believe anyone who reads this post hasn’t read Revelation? That’s mighty presumptive.
So much hatred! Lack of Christian charity! Why do you hate Pope Francis so much?