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Brendan Ross's avatar

Interestingly, the Pope's articulation has a name: perennialism. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perennial_philosophy

The problem is that the various "paths" don't really work unless you actually believe in the path you are on, and are not just behaving instrumentally (ie, "I go to church because it's good for community, but I don't believe any of it" type of thing). And the beliefs of all of them differ quite a bit, and many of them have uncharitable things to say (or have done in the not distant past) about other religions, generally or specifically, which makes it hard to actually be a perennialist and a believer, in the full sense, in any one of the "paths". This is why I think many people who have that kind of perspective end up as UUs, because that is a form of religion in which they are not actually within a "path" (at least not one of the historical ones, which is what perennialism is about) but are trying to straddle them ... perennialists generally took a dim view of that kind of synthetic spirituality, but it seems to me that you can't really be both a perennialist and a true believer in one of the paths -- it's contradictory.

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On universalism, it's an interesting argument. I have been troubled about this at times as well, but it has never been my main trouble.

My main trouble has always been the knot of theodicy coupled with omniscience and omnipotence, and the way the Book of Job "handles" this. Hart deals with this, in typical fashion for him, as an aside in the text you quote:

"No refuge is offered here by some specious distinction between God’s antecedent and consequent wills—between, that is, his universal will for creation apart from the fall and his particular will regarding each creature in consequence of the fall. Under the canopy of God’s omnipotence and omniscience, the consequent is already wholly virtually present in the antecedent."

Yes. Hart here is talking about how you can't separate God's generally benevolent will from his will for a specific person. A similar issue arises regarding theodicy itself, namely: an omniscient God would, when deciding to create creatures with free will and moral agency, at the very least know all of the potential outcomes of that, and the probabilities for them. One of the most common rejoinders to the problem of theodicy is that God granted wide moral agency in order to permit the possibility of choosing love, but this raises similar questions to what Hart is doing with respect to hell, namely what conception of morality could ever justify knowingly creating the possibility of Auschwitz (and knowing that it was a possibility, as well as the probability of it coming to pass) as a necessary potentiality to permit the choice to love? Certainly no conception of morality that I am aware of. As we know, the Book of Job's response to this problem is "the answer is above your paygrade, because you don't have the entire picture, only I, God, do" ... but is that really a satisfactory answer?

It seems to me that this kind of question has never really been satisfactorily answered -- answers have been given, but they all have a lot of problems.

Does that mean it's impossible to believe in God? No, I don't think so. I do think it means that there is much more mystery than cut-and-dried when it comes to God than we may prefer to think, or at least than many religious believers, of any of the various Christian denominations at least, would prefer to think most of the time. There's a lot of things that don't make a lot of sense, and that's where the faith part comes in.

Like Jeremy, I have more issues believing the universe is solely material and just spontaneously came into existence, or is itself eternal, than I do believing that there is a force behind it all. The extent to which any religion actually understands what that is, is an open question, it seems to me. But, even so, many of us can still benefit from belonging to a faith tradition, not instrumentally, but believing as we are able, despite seeing the problems and contradictions. It very much depends on one's own experiences and makeup. I do relate to your own struggles here quite a bit, as someone who grew up Catholic (12 years of Catholic school), even though my family, while practicing, was never particularly pious outside of obligations -- I still get the culture and the challenges it raises for many people.

Anthony Giovacchini's avatar

I never understood why almost all of the pressure or responsibility is on the lost, broken, blind sheep to find the True loving Shepherd. That seems backwards to me.

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