Life is hard enough. We never felt the need to extra burden our kids. We walked with them through life’s struggles. They knew they were loved. We gave them space to navigate and fail forward. They’ve all turned out exceptionally well.
This is totally off subject though you know I always have something to say....just wanted to let you know I'm not dead, read everything you write and if you ever have time, I hope you will write to me!
I've noticed how people like to constantly remind you of how tough they had it growing up, their dad "kicked their ass" all the time, or how they came from some ghetto or another. It's a point of pride I think, sort of a street cred thing for lack of better words. To come from a happy middle class home with nice parents means you are soft and can never really fit in with the "real people." I understand that nobody likes a silver spoon spoiled brat, but coming from wealth or poverty won't make you a good or bad person necessarily. I don't have any kids that I know of, so I try not to give advice on how to raise them, (or toughen them up or whatever) maybe just love them as much as you can before we go. God, it's such a short ride.
I think the issue here is not just the question of do you deliberately do things to make life more difficult for your children? A more basic question is how involved should you be in your children’s lives? Coming from a recent immigrant background, and married to a woman from an immigrant background, our cultures have a very different view of family relations than most middle and upper class Americans.
The prevalent culture seems to view parenthood as a set period of time devoted to raising a child. At some magic age of eighteen, twenty-one, end of college, the parental role is done. The child is launched into the world and the parents are free to go on with their lives. Again able to focus primarily on themselves as they did before the child was born. The “empty nester” time is held up as the ideal goal for their senior lives.
The cultures in which my wife and I were raised have a very different view of family and adult child-parent relations. My grandparents were a constant presence in my childhood and early adulthood. They supported my parents with money, child care, emotional backup. One set of my grandparents lived with one of my aunts, and her children, all of their lives. My wife and I had her parents living with us as we were raising our own children. We now live with an adult daughter and two grandchildren. Our own children have left home, come back, left again. We assist with grandchildren, finances and emotional support. People would say we are too involved, or help too much. For us it is the way things are supposed to be.
Two years ago, I encountered a health disaster that nearly killed me. Returning home from the hospital I required constant oxygen, could barely stand up or walk and basically could do nothing for myself. My wife alone would not have been able to deal with my situation. Our daughter who lives with us, and my other children, made sure that I was cared for, my wife was not overwhelmed and that our lives, and my recovery would proceed as well as possible. I do not think I would still be here if I did not have their support and help. I most certainly would have spent weeks, or months, in “rehab” outside my home if my wife and I had been alone in trying to deal with my situation.
All that “excess” assistance that we had supposedly given to our children came round full circle.
Why is it only imposed suffering that makes people stronger? Imposition is an entirely separate moral question.
The experiences of grappling with unimposed suffering is what makes us or tames us Paul speaks of the "fellowship of suffering" as he offers up his own suffering as sacrament. Suffering divides wheat from chaff; can bring us closer to God, or cause us to reject God.
Of all human emotions, suffering most reliably produces change.
Believing the right dogma has virtually no effect on change. Traditions' main effect is to inhibit change. So let go of what is temporary and get hold of what is eternal.
There is nothing I remember so vividly as being relieved from suffering in an impossible situation. It is a born-again experience. Because Jesus suffered in the same way, our suffering is not meaningless, as we are turned inside out by it, and learn to pick up our cross and follow him.
No pain, no gain is not an excuse to cause needless suffering. The dividing the spirit and the sarx is a lifelong surgery.
Life is hard enough. We never felt the need to extra burden our kids. We walked with them through life’s struggles. They knew they were loved. We gave them space to navigate and fail forward. They’ve all turned out exceptionally well.
Steve!!!
This is totally off subject though you know I always have something to say....just wanted to let you know I'm not dead, read everything you write and if you ever have time, I hope you will write to me!
Debby Rust
Glad to hear it, Debby!
I've noticed how people like to constantly remind you of how tough they had it growing up, their dad "kicked their ass" all the time, or how they came from some ghetto or another. It's a point of pride I think, sort of a street cred thing for lack of better words. To come from a happy middle class home with nice parents means you are soft and can never really fit in with the "real people." I understand that nobody likes a silver spoon spoiled brat, but coming from wealth or poverty won't make you a good or bad person necessarily. I don't have any kids that I know of, so I try not to give advice on how to raise them, (or toughen them up or whatever) maybe just love them as much as you can before we go. God, it's such a short ride.
I think the issue here is not just the question of do you deliberately do things to make life more difficult for your children? A more basic question is how involved should you be in your children’s lives? Coming from a recent immigrant background, and married to a woman from an immigrant background, our cultures have a very different view of family relations than most middle and upper class Americans.
The prevalent culture seems to view parenthood as a set period of time devoted to raising a child. At some magic age of eighteen, twenty-one, end of college, the parental role is done. The child is launched into the world and the parents are free to go on with their lives. Again able to focus primarily on themselves as they did before the child was born. The “empty nester” time is held up as the ideal goal for their senior lives.
The cultures in which my wife and I were raised have a very different view of family and adult child-parent relations. My grandparents were a constant presence in my childhood and early adulthood. They supported my parents with money, child care, emotional backup. One set of my grandparents lived with one of my aunts, and her children, all of their lives. My wife and I had her parents living with us as we were raising our own children. We now live with an adult daughter and two grandchildren. Our own children have left home, come back, left again. We assist with grandchildren, finances and emotional support. People would say we are too involved, or help too much. For us it is the way things are supposed to be.
Two years ago, I encountered a health disaster that nearly killed me. Returning home from the hospital I required constant oxygen, could barely stand up or walk and basically could do nothing for myself. My wife alone would not have been able to deal with my situation. Our daughter who lives with us, and my other children, made sure that I was cared for, my wife was not overwhelmed and that our lives, and my recovery would proceed as well as possible. I do not think I would still be here if I did not have their support and help. I most certainly would have spent weeks, or months, in “rehab” outside my home if my wife and I had been alone in trying to deal with my situation.
All that “excess” assistance that we had supposedly given to our children came round full circle.
JT
Why is it only imposed suffering that makes people stronger? Imposition is an entirely separate moral question.
The experiences of grappling with unimposed suffering is what makes us or tames us Paul speaks of the "fellowship of suffering" as he offers up his own suffering as sacrament. Suffering divides wheat from chaff; can bring us closer to God, or cause us to reject God.
Of all human emotions, suffering most reliably produces change.
Believing the right dogma has virtually no effect on change. Traditions' main effect is to inhibit change. So let go of what is temporary and get hold of what is eternal.
I'm mid-70's, with a life history similar to yours.
With understanding, comes the recognition that We May Be Wrong.
My oldest son is a satirist, a product of his upbringing.
Bases Covered is his anthem for neomodern spirituality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oQmmNCf1H0
A suggested hymn for Agnostics:
Bases Covered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oQmmNCf1H0
There is nothing I remember so vividly as being relieved from suffering in an impossible situation. It is a born-again experience. Because Jesus suffered in the same way, our suffering is not meaningless, as we are turned inside out by it, and learn to pick up our cross and follow him.
No pain, no gain is not an excuse to cause needless suffering. The dividing the spirit and the sarx is a lifelong surgery.