Thank you for this. I am sorry to say at tone time I was guilty of this very thing. I regret it, and dress modestly now. Since changing my way of dress I have become more aware of how other women dress and find it horrifying. I don't want to see these things either! I am offering many prayers and sacrifices for their conversion.
Thanks for this. If I hadn't already known what you've said is true from my own experience as a human being I would certainly know it's right on from my more than thirty three years as a priest. The politically correct portion of the North American left seems intent on denying human nature. When the great unveiling begins around May I feel like I should wear a blindfold until the fall, and I'm in my 60's! I can't imagine what it's like to be a young man striving for self mastery today.
Where I think discussions of modesty and the practice of modesty run afoul is when it gets super prescriptive, e.g. modesty means cosplaying the 1950s or weird skirts only rules. As an example, I got in a fight with a Regnum Christi fellowship leader because I wouldn't wear tights on a 90 degree day in Rome to attend an outdoor general audience with Pope John Paul II. I was conservatively dressed by all other standards. It also didn't prevent a man on a crowded Roman bus rubbing himself on me that same day.
I've read enough women's magazines in my life to know most women ABSOLUTELY do this on purpose, both dressing like skanks and the subsequent gaslighting of men that this poor pastor got from the Twitterati. (Might there be a handful of girls who are truly clueless? Aspies/neurodivergent/etc., and those who dress like that because one or the other parent has no moral qualms about whoring out their own daughter? Sure. I could totally see some of these parents refusing to buy their daughters modest clothing as surely as some parents refuse to buy their daughters short-sleeved shirts for the opposite reason.)
The author of the book, "For Women Only," goes into this a bit more, some hard data, and I'd recommend the book to other women interested in the topic. It's not *every* man, and maybe it's not true of Steve here, but a lot of male humans have a permeant database in their brains of enticing images of women. They can't control its creation, they can't control when data is written to it, and they can't control when it randomly throws up an image from 20 years ago. This would've been great in hunter-gatherer days if a man was away from his WIFE for a prolonged period of time, but in our pornified culture... The author of the book recounted her FOUR-YEAR-OLD SON getting separated from his family in the mall because they walked by a Victoria's Secret and he stopped to look. This isn't something that starts with puberty; he told his parents his "tummy felt good" seeing those naked bodies BEFORE HE COULD READ! Literally taking your child son to the mall can be the end of his innocence in this regard, but SURE, let your daughter walk around middle school dressed like a stripper and teach her to scream at boys when they react like NATURE PROGRAMMED THEM TO! Ugh! (And I was upbraiding girls for this when I WAS in middle school in the mid/late 90s; they didn't listen any better then.)
If a man walked up to a woman who didn't want to hear it and started whispering indecent things into her ear, or just started reading from steamy scenes in a romance novel, it would RIGHTFULLY be considered a form of sexual harassment, if not assault, (not talking legal definitions of those words, just colloquial,) but when women do THE SAME HECKING THING, they're "empowered." If I could apologize on behalf of female-kind, I would happily do so.
I just wish I had a better answer to, "What do we do to be able to attract a man's attention when this is the world he's grown up in, the 'normal' he knows, but without making men stumble?" I feel like we need a reboot of culture and a cataclysm that makes the Fall of Rome look like a tussle to even BEGIN to turn the ship around.
Thanks for a very thoughtful article that looks at a difficult issue from a different perspective. Boy, do things get thorny around this one!!! It explains why I feel resentment when presented with erotically-charged material (including advertising), and also is how I manage to resist p08n. I feel I am being manipulated.
On the other hand, what stimulates varies enormously from person to person, and from culture to culture. The style that Mike considers modest might be a fetish for Matt. There is something creepy about modesty freaks of whatever religious persuasion. In the end, we are left with the exercise of honesty and common sense. We might want to recall the broader meaning of modesty, which is simply to not draw undue attention to oneself.
If you want a mature, thoughtful insight into modern pop culture and sexual issues, check out Exodus Cry's film on Netflix "Liberated: The New Sexual Revolution". These are conversations that we have to have, about deep attitudinal change, not just clothing.
Oh please grow up. Newsflash - men's comfort is not the world's first priority nor is it womens responsibility.
How much covering is enough? A burka? When women wore all-covering dresses, a glimpse of leg or ankle was outrageously sexy for heavens sake.
The consent argument is specious. The real problem is mens lack of respect and entitled attitude to womens bodies. It turns them on, they can't have it, how dare she look sexy and then not be available for sex? Burkas now.
Respect means not looking at people as sex objects and not judging them with labels like skank and prostitute no matter how they are dressed. That is the Christian way.
Your rationale is similar to those who tell women to stay off the streets at night when there's a serial rapist at large, rather than putting a curfew on men so women can be out at night without fear.
Managing sexual urges is a personal issue that other people around you are not responsible for. Self-control is just that - SELF-control. Meaning YOU do it, not expect other people to modify their behaviour to make your life easier. Its called being a mature adult who accepts responsibility for themselves completely.
I have eating issues but I don't expect supermarkets and cake shops to black out their windows. I manage my ever-present lust for food so I can function in a civilised, responsible and respectful manner when surrounded by delectably presented food every time I leave the house.
Thank you for this. I am sorry to say at tone time I was guilty of this very thing. I regret it, and dress modestly now. Since changing my way of dress I have become more aware of how other women dress and find it horrifying. I don't want to see these things either! I am offering many prayers and sacrifices for their conversion.
Thanks for this. If I hadn't already known what you've said is true from my own experience as a human being I would certainly know it's right on from my more than thirty three years as a priest. The politically correct portion of the North American left seems intent on denying human nature. When the great unveiling begins around May I feel like I should wear a blindfold until the fall, and I'm in my 60's! I can't imagine what it's like to be a young man striving for self mastery today.
Where I think discussions of modesty and the practice of modesty run afoul is when it gets super prescriptive, e.g. modesty means cosplaying the 1950s or weird skirts only rules. As an example, I got in a fight with a Regnum Christi fellowship leader because I wouldn't wear tights on a 90 degree day in Rome to attend an outdoor general audience with Pope John Paul II. I was conservatively dressed by all other standards. It also didn't prevent a man on a crowded Roman bus rubbing himself on me that same day.
I've read enough women's magazines in my life to know most women ABSOLUTELY do this on purpose, both dressing like skanks and the subsequent gaslighting of men that this poor pastor got from the Twitterati. (Might there be a handful of girls who are truly clueless? Aspies/neurodivergent/etc., and those who dress like that because one or the other parent has no moral qualms about whoring out their own daughter? Sure. I could totally see some of these parents refusing to buy their daughters modest clothing as surely as some parents refuse to buy their daughters short-sleeved shirts for the opposite reason.)
The author of the book, "For Women Only," goes into this a bit more, some hard data, and I'd recommend the book to other women interested in the topic. It's not *every* man, and maybe it's not true of Steve here, but a lot of male humans have a permeant database in their brains of enticing images of women. They can't control its creation, they can't control when data is written to it, and they can't control when it randomly throws up an image from 20 years ago. This would've been great in hunter-gatherer days if a man was away from his WIFE for a prolonged period of time, but in our pornified culture... The author of the book recounted her FOUR-YEAR-OLD SON getting separated from his family in the mall because they walked by a Victoria's Secret and he stopped to look. This isn't something that starts with puberty; he told his parents his "tummy felt good" seeing those naked bodies BEFORE HE COULD READ! Literally taking your child son to the mall can be the end of his innocence in this regard, but SURE, let your daughter walk around middle school dressed like a stripper and teach her to scream at boys when they react like NATURE PROGRAMMED THEM TO! Ugh! (And I was upbraiding girls for this when I WAS in middle school in the mid/late 90s; they didn't listen any better then.)
If a man walked up to a woman who didn't want to hear it and started whispering indecent things into her ear, or just started reading from steamy scenes in a romance novel, it would RIGHTFULLY be considered a form of sexual harassment, if not assault, (not talking legal definitions of those words, just colloquial,) but when women do THE SAME HECKING THING, they're "empowered." If I could apologize on behalf of female-kind, I would happily do so.
I just wish I had a better answer to, "What do we do to be able to attract a man's attention when this is the world he's grown up in, the 'normal' he knows, but without making men stumble?" I feel like we need a reboot of culture and a cataclysm that makes the Fall of Rome look like a tussle to even BEGIN to turn the ship around.
Amen!
Thanks for a very thoughtful article that looks at a difficult issue from a different perspective. Boy, do things get thorny around this one!!! It explains why I feel resentment when presented with erotically-charged material (including advertising), and also is how I manage to resist p08n. I feel I am being manipulated.
On the other hand, what stimulates varies enormously from person to person, and from culture to culture. The style that Mike considers modest might be a fetish for Matt. There is something creepy about modesty freaks of whatever religious persuasion. In the end, we are left with the exercise of honesty and common sense. We might want to recall the broader meaning of modesty, which is simply to not draw undue attention to oneself.
If you want a mature, thoughtful insight into modern pop culture and sexual issues, check out Exodus Cry's film on Netflix "Liberated: The New Sexual Revolution". These are conversations that we have to have, about deep attitudinal change, not just clothing.
Oh please grow up. Newsflash - men's comfort is not the world's first priority nor is it womens responsibility.
How much covering is enough? A burka? When women wore all-covering dresses, a glimpse of leg or ankle was outrageously sexy for heavens sake.
The consent argument is specious. The real problem is mens lack of respect and entitled attitude to womens bodies. It turns them on, they can't have it, how dare she look sexy and then not be available for sex? Burkas now.
Respect means not looking at people as sex objects and not judging them with labels like skank and prostitute no matter how they are dressed. That is the Christian way.
Your rationale is similar to those who tell women to stay off the streets at night when there's a serial rapist at large, rather than putting a curfew on men so women can be out at night without fear.
Managing sexual urges is a personal issue that other people around you are not responsible for. Self-control is just that - SELF-control. Meaning YOU do it, not expect other people to modify their behaviour to make your life easier. Its called being a mature adult who accepts responsibility for themselves completely.
I have eating issues but I don't expect supermarkets and cake shops to black out their windows. I manage my ever-present lust for food so I can function in a civilised, responsible and respectful manner when surrounded by delectably presented food every time I leave the house.