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SMK's avatar
4hEdited

This is a beautiful post, and for my money, the most profound you have written -- anyway in the last year or two. (No offense to your others!) I am delighted to hear that you are coming open, at least ever so slightly, to a view of God as you outline here; and a view of doctrine. It seems practical and balanced. And beautiful. And liveable.

I struggle too. I was lying awake in bed recently and remembered what God said when He was a human. "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." He said other things too, but He said that. It doesn't sound very much like the God your mother was talking about.

The rest of this comment, I type with some fear and trembling, because it's the type of thing I usually try not to talk about among Roman Catholics. I'm a Protestant, but I'm not trying to convert people out of their tradition, and it seems rude to share some of these thoughts in another's house (as it were). You brought up some things of great relevance to that everlasting and weary discussion, and I hope you'll forgive my sharing the resonance they have from my perspective.

(1) The things you mention are primary reasons why I could not ever be a Roman Catholic. Yes, I have actual substantive problems and critiques of this or that doctrine, but there's something to be said for submission. But to walk in, head held high, and join an institution that very overtly says I must affirm things that I very strongly believe to be false? I don't see how to be an honest human creature and do it. Even without my head held high, for that matter.

That's not to gainsay the many beautiful things about the Roman Catholic Church or (far more) Roman Catholic believers themselves.

(2) It seems to me that one who truly believes the Roman Catholic Church is infallible will delight in the proliferation of new dogmas. Every new dogma is a new opportunity to know the truth for certain, and that is something humans love. I study math, and I don't find the proof of a new theorem to be an intellectual problem for me -- it's great to learn something that I didn't know before. It doesn't fill me with doubt and distress.

No, the people for whom it is a stumbling block are those -- certainly like me, perhaps like you -- who really don't believe that it is infallible. Then every new dogma has, quite simply, the prospect of another gulf destroying reunion between me and my brothers. Another reason why trying to join the Roman Church *would* fill me with doubt and distress. And the cause is obvious: whereas I believe that the deliverances of mathematical reason actually do give truth, I do *not* believe that about the deliverances of the Roman Catholic Church. And trying to force yourself to accept as true something you don't actually accept as true (or as infallible something you don't believe is infallible) -- well, that's a recipe for misery.

Roman Catholic (theological) conservatives would say I simply lack faith. As regards the Roman Church, they're quite right. I do. As regards God and Christ, thank God I do not. It can all get confusing and distressing at times, but I have come to think He wants us fighting through it to His love and beauty, and finding faith in Him in any event.

Anyway, the point is simply -- it seems to me to go to the essence of the Roman Church's traditional claims about herself whether her declaring new dogmas is good, or is not. But others may disagree. In any event, it most certainly does not go to the essence of the truth of Christ. And your point about stumbling blocks seems very powerful to me.

Please don't take this to be some kind of full-throated ra-ra defense of Protestantism. There's obviously much to criticize. Mencken's point has force. Mencken also did elsewhere say some very nice things about J. Gresham Machen -- even if he was a Presbyterian pastor. I think there's a little more to be said for preaching than he allows, when it doesn't pretend to come with the voice of God. But there is much, too, to be said for beauty in worship.

I hope I have not been too impertinent. I will now try to return to being a polite guest. I am delighted to read of recent developments.

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nancyv's avatar
3hEdited

"Teach the Faith. But put away the gun." That last line melts the heart.

(and i would add LIVE THE FAITH as Jesus taught us.)

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