I just have to say, Steve, how much certain parts of your post resonate with me.
Having long ago become so weary and disgusted with the non-stop banter of numerous factions within the Catholic Church, pontificating on a daily basis regarding the teachings if the Catholic Faith, I have come to believe that unless souls become as little children, they don't stand a snow balls chance in Hell.
All these decades of doctrinal horror....on all sides; the rending of garments from every direction is indicative of the fact.....yes, a fact...that the means to the end has become the end in itself.
Souls have fallen out of love for the Divine,; simple childlike trust and love GONE.
God and His undying love for His creatures, only asking to be loved in return has been usurped by words....opinions....volumes of rules which continue to be discussed and debated ad nauseam until the very life of a soul is crushed.
The Catholic Faith is the means to the end. It's a travesty beyond words what mankind has managed to do to It.
This is a beautiful post, and for my money, the most profound you have written -- anyway in the last year or two. (No offense to your others!) I am delighted to hear that you are coming open, at least ever so slightly, to a view of God as you outline here; and a view of doctrine. It seems practical and balanced. And beautiful. And liveable.
I struggle too. I was lying awake in bed recently and remembered what God said when He was a human. "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." He said other things too, but He said that. It doesn't sound very much like the God your mother was talking about.
The rest of this comment, I type with some fear and trembling, because it's the type of thing I usually try not to talk about among Roman Catholics. I'm a Protestant, but I'm not trying to convert people out of their tradition, and it seems rude to share some of these thoughts in another's house (as it were). You brought up some things of great relevance to that everlasting and weary discussion, and I hope you'll forgive my sharing the resonance they have from my perspective.
(1) The things you mention are primary reasons why I could not ever be a Roman Catholic. Yes, I have actual substantive problems and critiques of this or that doctrine, but there's something to be said for submission. But to walk in, head held high, and join an institution that very overtly says I must affirm things that I very strongly believe to be false? I don't see how to be an honest human creature and do it. Even without my head held high, for that matter.
That's not to gainsay the many beautiful things about the Roman Catholic Church or (far more) Roman Catholic believers themselves.
(2) It seems to me that one who truly believes the Roman Catholic Church is infallible will delight in the proliferation of new dogmas. Every new dogma is a new opportunity to know the truth for certain, and that is something humans love. I study math, and I don't find the proof of a new theorem to be an intellectual problem for me -- it's great to learn something that I didn't know before. It doesn't fill me with doubt and distress.
No, the people for whom it is a stumbling block are those -- certainly like me, perhaps like you -- who really don't believe that it is infallible. Then every new dogma has, quite simply, the prospect of another gulf destroying reunion between me and my brothers. Another reason why trying to join the Roman Church *would* fill me with doubt and distress. And the cause is obvious: whereas I believe that the deliverances of mathematical reason actually do give truth, I do *not* believe that about the deliverances of the Roman Catholic Church. And trying to force yourself to accept as true something you don't actually accept as true (or as infallible something you don't believe is infallible) -- well, that's a recipe for misery.
Roman Catholic (theological) conservatives would say I simply lack faith. As regards the Roman Church, they're quite right. I do. As regards God and Christ, thank God I do not. It can all get confusing and distressing at times, but I have come to think He wants us fighting through it to His love and beauty, and finding faith in Him in any event.
Anyway, the point is simply -- it seems to me to go to the essence of the Roman Church's traditional claims about herself whether her declaring new dogmas is good, or is not. But others may disagree. In any event, it most certainly does not go to the essence of the truth of Christ. And your point about stumbling blocks seems very powerful to me.
Please don't take this to be some kind of full-throated ra-ra defense of Protestantism. There's obviously much to criticize. Mencken's point has force. Mencken also did elsewhere say some very nice things about J. Gresham Machen -- even if he was a Presbyterian pastor. I think there's a little more to be said for preaching than he allows, when it doesn't pretend to come with the voice of God. But there is much, too, to be said for beauty in worship.
I hope I have not been too impertinent. I will now try to return to being a polite guest. I am delighted to read of recent developments.
Great comment, SMK. Thanks. Much to consider here. I think we're largely on the same page, I just have never found Christianity outside of Catholicism or Orthodoxy particularly appealing. But for now I'm just open to being led to what Lewis called Mere Christianity. Even that will take some time, I expect, if it happens at all.
I wasn't trying to talk you out of Catholicism, and I'm sorry if it seemed like I was. It's hard to imagine you as something else, even just from what I've read of you. It just seemed relevant to agree with some of your points from across the water, as it were.
I think it's different when you're born into it. Then it's your church, and staying in it while not believing all its dogmas doesn't necessarily seem to involve one in the same issues. I'm speaking just from what I've observed in friends and others. It's never seemed urgent to me to try to talk someone out of the Catholic church who has faith in Jesus and is following him and is largely untroubled by whatever points in their theoretical system or practice I might have questions about.
I guess what I *would* say is just to remind that the rest of Christendom is there as a release valve (if you will). The Roman Catholic who is stumbling specifically over a specifically Roman Catholic dogma is someone whom I'll gently remind of the existence of other parts of the Christian world, in case that is the way forward for their faith.
But I don't think that mainly applies to you. I think your main questions are other and more central. If answering them or healing takes you to a type of Roman Catholicism where dogma is less of a tyrant in your mind*, that's wonderful.
I think I can understand why someone who had grown up in the richness of Catholicism (or Orthodoxy) would find other expressions too thin.
Incidentally, and a propos of none of this, but of your post: if you haven't read Lewis's "Problem of Pain," or haven't read it recently, I think it has some very beautiful passages about God's love. For whenever you're in the mood, if at all.
You'll continue to have my prayer, as a brother.
*Dogma as a tyrant in the mind happens in Protestantism, too.
(Edit: Of course, we'd probably all agree that some dogmas are necessary. I'm not referring to that as a tyrant, or trying to short-circuit difficult discussions about which are and which aren't.)
I think there are many (millions?) Of Catholics who secretly would agree with what you have written.
I struggle with all the rules and threats of eternal damnation. Some of the dogmas require cognitive dissonance to swallow. While I have no qualms with, say, the Immaculate Conception, why place the penalty of hellfire on it if someone struggles to accept it?
God bless Fr Joe for his response about a loving God!
Hey Steve, with daylight "savings" time upon us, I have an extra hour to peruse stuff I've missed over the past couple of years. (ha) I was looking for something else, but came across this and thought of you. It helped me too.
“The point is, there were way too many credible people in my life and in the Church saying that God is scary and you’d better follow the rules or he’s going to open up a can of whoop-ass on you, and I believed it.“
You just described the entire rationale for hagiographic intercession, especially Marian intercession.
You also just described the reason for the inherent lack of any relationship with Jesus (outside of the Eucharist) that Catholics have. If Jesus is God and God is scary, what does that make Jesus?
Wonderful post, Steve. Thanks for sharing this authentic and thought provoking post.
I was born and raised an Evangelical Protestant, then in my late thirties began to wrestle with the historical and theological incongruities of Protestantism and started embracing Catholicism. My wife was not happy. Side note, I was also born in 1977, so it’s been a decade long journey for me. Due to numerous facts too long and complicated to address here, a few years ago I pivoted to Eastern Orthodoxy, and one of the main reasons is that it retained much of the solution to the ahistorical Protestant view of “Bible-only based Christianity” but did not carry - at least not nearly to the extent as Catholicism - the overly legalistic dogmas and later developing dogmas in RC such as mortal vs venial sin, purgatory, papal and magesterial infallibility, the immaculate conception, etc.
Wherever you end up on this journey, I pray that you will embrace the fundamental truth that God does love you more than you can possibly fathom (a truth I have to “re-embrace frequently) and seek to love Him in return the best you can. Grace and peace to you.
I guess I was lucky because I had a lot of mystical experiences. So it was always about the specialness of God, and what He did, and me wondering what He was going to do next. And naturally, I began to love Him and the life He gave me, which He didn't need to do, but has done out of His mercy and generosity.
The dogma and Bible study came later, and has always lined up with what the Lord spoke to my heart. Putting it altogether has been so fascinating, a cosmic jigsaw puzzle.
As your other posters have said, it really is about God's love and how we should respond in return.
Steve, this was profound and thought-provoking, to say the least. I am going to need to read and re-read this essay many, many times. I will not be able to form a comprehensive response (not that you've asked for one!) without sitting with it for quite a while. A couple of immediate (and barely formed) thoughts: 1. While I personally believe that that the teachings of the Catholic Church are true, there are certainly many instances in which the emphasis has been placed too much on assent-under-pain-of-hell and not ENOUGH emphasis placed on the love and mercy of God. That is certainly more prevalent in trad circles than in the N.O. world, but it can happen anywhere. 2. It's all fine and good to say that we don't need dogma, but without dogma, there is a very real danger of things spiraling completely out-of-control to the point where anything goes morally and doctrinally, and even the bare essentials of Christian belief are lost. (I think we have witnessed this to an extent in the Catholic world and certainly in the more liberal/progressive Protestant denominations.) 3. I have certainly had some similar struggles with certain teachings and aspects of the faith. Not for one minute do I wish to come off as someone without doubts and struggles of my own. Trust me on that. But my faith has been strengthened to a great extent over the past 10 years by one of the most unlikely sources imaginable: the stories and testimony of Catholic exorcists, and those who assist them. (I've spoken personally with one such assistant.) I say this NOT to pile on with more of the "believe-this-or-else" attitude that has caused you so much suffering. On the contrary, these testimonies have strengthened my belief in the MERCY of God, and His desire to heal us. Most of all, they have given me great confidence in the authority of the Church he founded...even though the people running it are sometimes the worst possible examples of faithful Christians imaginable. Even though its members are often sinful (and worse), it is still His Church, and our spiritual enemies know it. In the end, they have to admit it, and obey.
"Good fathers don’t want to cause their children pain. I’m sure about that part, even though I’ve often screwed it up. Over time, I came to know what kind of dad I wanted to be, but I also knew what kind I had been. My conception of fatherhood was warped. My own dad was so angry and aloof and volatile with me that I was terrified of him. And then, every once in a while, he’d interject moments of love and generosity and humor that just made him totally confusing."
Dude. I've been reading up on attachment theory, and holy cow does it explain a whole lot me, and would definitely explain a whole lot of you. Read the book "Attached." I mean it. It was a revelation to me.
I find your post beautiful, and yet it's like reading about a world that's very different from the world I know - as a Protestant. God is clearly working in your life, and that is heartening to see. But all your talk about dogmas... well, Protestants aren't very good at dogmas. How could they be when as soon as you disagree you go and start a new church. I'm half tempted to start my own church every now and then!
But look, faith is not about believing the dogmas. It's about believing in God.
Just take a look at the main characters in the bible and ask what it is about them that God likes. What made Abraham the "father of the faith", except that he believed God wasn't a liar, and that He would keep His word about Abraham having countless descendants. Read the Psalms to see how David viewed God. Each of them "got" part of God. Each of them revealed an aspect of God that God wants us to see.
For me, I love Jonathan Edward's wife Sarah, who reminds me so much of Mary in the beauty of her faith. One day, she heard a visiting pastor pray to God as "our Father", and the thought hit her - Can I really call God my Father? She went to her bedroom and searched the scriptures and found that yes, she could. And her faith, that was already strong, opened up to the wonder that God really is our Father. That night she said she experienced more joy than all her previous life combined. She finally "got" that one aspect of God. And everything changed. She was so deliriously happy, she couldn't function for three weeks. The mere mention of God would cause her to collapse unable to take the wonder she felt.
But you see, this was about much more than Sarah seeing that God really is her Father. This simple experience she had changed the world in my view. Because Jonathan knew her. He knew what she experienced was real. And that compelled him to not speak against the manifestations the Sarah and so many others were experiencing. And that meant America's Great Awakening was not stopped in its tracks by such a prominent theologian. And that meant God had set America on a path of being a more deeply Christian nation. And we knew where that led in altering the course of world history.
My point here, is that getting God is on one hand very simple and elementary. And on the other hand, something very profound and transforming for those who are and will be impacted by our lives.
In other words. God is up to big things with you. And yet He starts in small ways. Like what Father Joe taught you in that podcast concerning the love of a God who would die on the cross for us. That simple concept leads exactly to the kind of question birthed in Sarah Edwards - What if God really does love me? And you cannot possibly imagine where deeply answering that question can take you.
This is great Steve, I’ve learned a lot from Orthodoxy’s way of just surrendering to God in prayer, we’re not gonna have all the answers, when you accept that, it becomes a feature of life and not a bug, I ended up hating the show Ted Lasso, but the line in season 1 is truly great, “Be curious, not judgmental”
"In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; and, in all things, charity" - often misattributed to John Wesley, but a common mantra in Methodism
So much wisdom in your post. I've personally taken the approach that I can get no closer to Him in truth than Catholicism/Orthodoxy, and so I'm willing to have my doubts that I pursue in good faith and still consider myself in good standing. Probably not what a "good" Catholic should do, but I trust (like you said in your post) that He understands.
I just have to say, Steve, how much certain parts of your post resonate with me.
Having long ago become so weary and disgusted with the non-stop banter of numerous factions within the Catholic Church, pontificating on a daily basis regarding the teachings if the Catholic Faith, I have come to believe that unless souls become as little children, they don't stand a snow balls chance in Hell.
All these decades of doctrinal horror....on all sides; the rending of garments from every direction is indicative of the fact.....yes, a fact...that the means to the end has become the end in itself.
Souls have fallen out of love for the Divine,; simple childlike trust and love GONE.
God and His undying love for His creatures, only asking to be loved in return has been usurped by words....opinions....volumes of rules which continue to be discussed and debated ad nauseam until the very life of a soul is crushed.
The Catholic Faith is the means to the end. It's a travesty beyond words what mankind has managed to do to It.
This is a beautiful post, and for my money, the most profound you have written -- anyway in the last year or two. (No offense to your others!) I am delighted to hear that you are coming open, at least ever so slightly, to a view of God as you outline here; and a view of doctrine. It seems practical and balanced. And beautiful. And liveable.
I struggle too. I was lying awake in bed recently and remembered what God said when He was a human. "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." He said other things too, but He said that. It doesn't sound very much like the God your mother was talking about.
The rest of this comment, I type with some fear and trembling, because it's the type of thing I usually try not to talk about among Roman Catholics. I'm a Protestant, but I'm not trying to convert people out of their tradition, and it seems rude to share some of these thoughts in another's house (as it were). You brought up some things of great relevance to that everlasting and weary discussion, and I hope you'll forgive my sharing the resonance they have from my perspective.
(1) The things you mention are primary reasons why I could not ever be a Roman Catholic. Yes, I have actual substantive problems and critiques of this or that doctrine, but there's something to be said for submission. But to walk in, head held high, and join an institution that very overtly says I must affirm things that I very strongly believe to be false? I don't see how to be an honest human creature and do it. Even without my head held high, for that matter.
That's not to gainsay the many beautiful things about the Roman Catholic Church or (far more) Roman Catholic believers themselves.
(2) It seems to me that one who truly believes the Roman Catholic Church is infallible will delight in the proliferation of new dogmas. Every new dogma is a new opportunity to know the truth for certain, and that is something humans love. I study math, and I don't find the proof of a new theorem to be an intellectual problem for me -- it's great to learn something that I didn't know before. It doesn't fill me with doubt and distress.
No, the people for whom it is a stumbling block are those -- certainly like me, perhaps like you -- who really don't believe that it is infallible. Then every new dogma has, quite simply, the prospect of another gulf destroying reunion between me and my brothers. Another reason why trying to join the Roman Church *would* fill me with doubt and distress. And the cause is obvious: whereas I believe that the deliverances of mathematical reason actually do give truth, I do *not* believe that about the deliverances of the Roman Catholic Church. And trying to force yourself to accept as true something you don't actually accept as true (or as infallible something you don't believe is infallible) -- well, that's a recipe for misery.
Roman Catholic (theological) conservatives would say I simply lack faith. As regards the Roman Church, they're quite right. I do. As regards God and Christ, thank God I do not. It can all get confusing and distressing at times, but I have come to think He wants us fighting through it to His love and beauty, and finding faith in Him in any event.
Anyway, the point is simply -- it seems to me to go to the essence of the Roman Church's traditional claims about herself whether her declaring new dogmas is good, or is not. But others may disagree. In any event, it most certainly does not go to the essence of the truth of Christ. And your point about stumbling blocks seems very powerful to me.
Please don't take this to be some kind of full-throated ra-ra defense of Protestantism. There's obviously much to criticize. Mencken's point has force. Mencken also did elsewhere say some very nice things about J. Gresham Machen -- even if he was a Presbyterian pastor. I think there's a little more to be said for preaching than he allows, when it doesn't pretend to come with the voice of God. But there is much, too, to be said for beauty in worship.
I hope I have not been too impertinent. I will now try to return to being a polite guest. I am delighted to read of recent developments.
Great comment, SMK. Thanks. Much to consider here. I think we're largely on the same page, I just have never found Christianity outside of Catholicism or Orthodoxy particularly appealing. But for now I'm just open to being led to what Lewis called Mere Christianity. Even that will take some time, I expect, if it happens at all.
Thank you.
I wasn't trying to talk you out of Catholicism, and I'm sorry if it seemed like I was. It's hard to imagine you as something else, even just from what I've read of you. It just seemed relevant to agree with some of your points from across the water, as it were.
I think it's different when you're born into it. Then it's your church, and staying in it while not believing all its dogmas doesn't necessarily seem to involve one in the same issues. I'm speaking just from what I've observed in friends and others. It's never seemed urgent to me to try to talk someone out of the Catholic church who has faith in Jesus and is following him and is largely untroubled by whatever points in their theoretical system or practice I might have questions about.
I guess what I *would* say is just to remind that the rest of Christendom is there as a release valve (if you will). The Roman Catholic who is stumbling specifically over a specifically Roman Catholic dogma is someone whom I'll gently remind of the existence of other parts of the Christian world, in case that is the way forward for their faith.
But I don't think that mainly applies to you. I think your main questions are other and more central. If answering them or healing takes you to a type of Roman Catholicism where dogma is less of a tyrant in your mind*, that's wonderful.
I think I can understand why someone who had grown up in the richness of Catholicism (or Orthodoxy) would find other expressions too thin.
Incidentally, and a propos of none of this, but of your post: if you haven't read Lewis's "Problem of Pain," or haven't read it recently, I think it has some very beautiful passages about God's love. For whenever you're in the mood, if at all.
You'll continue to have my prayer, as a brother.
*Dogma as a tyrant in the mind happens in Protestantism, too.
(Edit: Of course, we'd probably all agree that some dogmas are necessary. I'm not referring to that as a tyrant, or trying to short-circuit difficult discussions about which are and which aren't.)
Thanks, SMK. I didn't think that's what you were trying to do. I guess I just felt compelled to explain why I am not considering that.
"Teach the Faith. But put away the gun." That last line melts the heart.
(and i would add LIVE THE FAITH as Jesus taught us.)
I think there are many (millions?) Of Catholics who secretly would agree with what you have written.
I struggle with all the rules and threats of eternal damnation. Some of the dogmas require cognitive dissonance to swallow. While I have no qualms with, say, the Immaculate Conception, why place the penalty of hellfire on it if someone struggles to accept it?
God bless Fr Joe for his response about a loving God!
https://beyondthesestonewalls.com/posts/divine-mercy-for-doubting-thomas-and-other-spiritually-wounded
Hey Steve, with daylight "savings" time upon us, I have an extra hour to peruse stuff I've missed over the past couple of years. (ha) I was looking for something else, but came across this and thought of you. It helped me too.
I’ve long felt a kinship with Thomas and his “doubt.” Show me the wounds, Lord, if that’s what it takes. I’m not in a status competition.
I’ve learned a lot from Fr. Gordon MacCrae. I can’t imagine the suffering he endures daily. Thx for sharing this.
“The point is, there were way too many credible people in my life and in the Church saying that God is scary and you’d better follow the rules or he’s going to open up a can of whoop-ass on you, and I believed it.“
You just described the entire rationale for hagiographic intercession, especially Marian intercession.
You also just described the reason for the inherent lack of any relationship with Jesus (outside of the Eucharist) that Catholics have. If Jesus is God and God is scary, what does that make Jesus?
Wonderful post, Steve. Thanks for sharing this authentic and thought provoking post.
I was born and raised an Evangelical Protestant, then in my late thirties began to wrestle with the historical and theological incongruities of Protestantism and started embracing Catholicism. My wife was not happy. Side note, I was also born in 1977, so it’s been a decade long journey for me. Due to numerous facts too long and complicated to address here, a few years ago I pivoted to Eastern Orthodoxy, and one of the main reasons is that it retained much of the solution to the ahistorical Protestant view of “Bible-only based Christianity” but did not carry - at least not nearly to the extent as Catholicism - the overly legalistic dogmas and later developing dogmas in RC such as mortal vs venial sin, purgatory, papal and magesterial infallibility, the immaculate conception, etc.
Wherever you end up on this journey, I pray that you will embrace the fundamental truth that God does love you more than you can possibly fathom (a truth I have to “re-embrace frequently) and seek to love Him in return the best you can. Grace and peace to you.
I guess I was lucky because I had a lot of mystical experiences. So it was always about the specialness of God, and what He did, and me wondering what He was going to do next. And naturally, I began to love Him and the life He gave me, which He didn't need to do, but has done out of His mercy and generosity.
The dogma and Bible study came later, and has always lined up with what the Lord spoke to my heart. Putting it altogether has been so fascinating, a cosmic jigsaw puzzle.
As your other posters have said, it really is about God's love and how we should respond in return.
Brilliant essay, man. Easily one of your best.
Thank you! I didn't expect this much positive reaction. It's long and kind of messy, but I don't know how else to figure it out.
Steve, this was profound and thought-provoking, to say the least. I am going to need to read and re-read this essay many, many times. I will not be able to form a comprehensive response (not that you've asked for one!) without sitting with it for quite a while. A couple of immediate (and barely formed) thoughts: 1. While I personally believe that that the teachings of the Catholic Church are true, there are certainly many instances in which the emphasis has been placed too much on assent-under-pain-of-hell and not ENOUGH emphasis placed on the love and mercy of God. That is certainly more prevalent in trad circles than in the N.O. world, but it can happen anywhere. 2. It's all fine and good to say that we don't need dogma, but without dogma, there is a very real danger of things spiraling completely out-of-control to the point where anything goes morally and doctrinally, and even the bare essentials of Christian belief are lost. (I think we have witnessed this to an extent in the Catholic world and certainly in the more liberal/progressive Protestant denominations.) 3. I have certainly had some similar struggles with certain teachings and aspects of the faith. Not for one minute do I wish to come off as someone without doubts and struggles of my own. Trust me on that. But my faith has been strengthened to a great extent over the past 10 years by one of the most unlikely sources imaginable: the stories and testimony of Catholic exorcists, and those who assist them. (I've spoken personally with one such assistant.) I say this NOT to pile on with more of the "believe-this-or-else" attitude that has caused you so much suffering. On the contrary, these testimonies have strengthened my belief in the MERCY of God, and His desire to heal us. Most of all, they have given me great confidence in the authority of the Church he founded...even though the people running it are sometimes the worst possible examples of faithful Christians imaginable. Even though its members are often sinful (and worse), it is still His Church, and our spiritual enemies know it. In the end, they have to admit it, and obey.
"Good fathers don’t want to cause their children pain. I’m sure about that part, even though I’ve often screwed it up. Over time, I came to know what kind of dad I wanted to be, but I also knew what kind I had been. My conception of fatherhood was warped. My own dad was so angry and aloof and volatile with me that I was terrified of him. And then, every once in a while, he’d interject moments of love and generosity and humor that just made him totally confusing."
Dude. I've been reading up on attachment theory, and holy cow does it explain a whole lot me, and would definitely explain a whole lot of you. Read the book "Attached." I mean it. It was a revelation to me.
Actually started listening to that the other day!
Thanks for the Mencken quote! Loved it…and now I want to read the whole thing.
This essay was a masterpiece! I resonate with so much, and I want to say so much, but alas! My brain is low battery at this time of night. 😅
Thanks so much, Steve! For me, this is one of your best, I will return to it soon and maybe even make a YouTube video reflecting on some excerpts.
If the stars ever align, I'd love to get a drink with you some day.
I find your post beautiful, and yet it's like reading about a world that's very different from the world I know - as a Protestant. God is clearly working in your life, and that is heartening to see. But all your talk about dogmas... well, Protestants aren't very good at dogmas. How could they be when as soon as you disagree you go and start a new church. I'm half tempted to start my own church every now and then!
But look, faith is not about believing the dogmas. It's about believing in God.
Just take a look at the main characters in the bible and ask what it is about them that God likes. What made Abraham the "father of the faith", except that he believed God wasn't a liar, and that He would keep His word about Abraham having countless descendants. Read the Psalms to see how David viewed God. Each of them "got" part of God. Each of them revealed an aspect of God that God wants us to see.
For me, I love Jonathan Edward's wife Sarah, who reminds me so much of Mary in the beauty of her faith. One day, she heard a visiting pastor pray to God as "our Father", and the thought hit her - Can I really call God my Father? She went to her bedroom and searched the scriptures and found that yes, she could. And her faith, that was already strong, opened up to the wonder that God really is our Father. That night she said she experienced more joy than all her previous life combined. She finally "got" that one aspect of God. And everything changed. She was so deliriously happy, she couldn't function for three weeks. The mere mention of God would cause her to collapse unable to take the wonder she felt.
But you see, this was about much more than Sarah seeing that God really is her Father. This simple experience she had changed the world in my view. Because Jonathan knew her. He knew what she experienced was real. And that compelled him to not speak against the manifestations the Sarah and so many others were experiencing. And that meant America's Great Awakening was not stopped in its tracks by such a prominent theologian. And that meant God had set America on a path of being a more deeply Christian nation. And we knew where that led in altering the course of world history.
My point here, is that getting God is on one hand very simple and elementary. And on the other hand, something very profound and transforming for those who are and will be impacted by our lives.
In other words. God is up to big things with you. And yet He starts in small ways. Like what Father Joe taught you in that podcast concerning the love of a God who would die on the cross for us. That simple concept leads exactly to the kind of question birthed in Sarah Edwards - What if God really does love me? And you cannot possibly imagine where deeply answering that question can take you.
I talked to Claude about your post and my reply. I would think you would find it of interest:
https://claude.ai/share/9c8baf6c-fdaf-4e04-af6f-fa97d1882cdd
Thank you for sharing this interaction
This is great Steve, I’ve learned a lot from Orthodoxy’s way of just surrendering to God in prayer, we’re not gonna have all the answers, when you accept that, it becomes a feature of life and not a bug, I ended up hating the show Ted Lasso, but the line in season 1 is truly great, “Be curious, not judgmental”
"In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; and, in all things, charity" - often misattributed to John Wesley, but a common mantra in Methodism
So much wisdom in your post. I've personally taken the approach that I can get no closer to Him in truth than Catholicism/Orthodoxy, and so I'm willing to have my doubts that I pursue in good faith and still consider myself in good standing. Probably not what a "good" Catholic should do, but I trust (like you said in your post) that He understands.