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I never saw the whole clip of Tucker Carlson explaining his thoughts on UFOs to Rogan, and what he means when he says they're "spiritual" beings (it's not angels/demons per se, but "above the known laws of nature.")
Fascinating discussion. Worth your time. (There’s a good bit more discussion after this clip, but this was a big chunk of it.
(Source)
Here’s the transcript in case you can’t listen:
Speaker 1 (Tucker Carlson):
U.S. servicemen have died as a result of contact with or being in the proximity of these vehicles. And we know that because there are a lot of suits working their way through the VA system.
Speaker 2 (Joe Rogan):
Yeah?
Tucker Carlson:
Where families, you know, can't get compensated for the deaths or injuries to loved ones.
Joe Rogan:
Because it's all under wraps, top secret?
Tucker Carlson:
Well, that's just a fact, okay, that is happening. So if there's... I guess, you know, when there are measurable physical effects of a phenomenon, we can say conclusively the phenomenon is real.
Joe Rogan:
Right.
Tucker Carlson:
So, yeah. I mean, I guess we're sort of past the point of, like, is it real? Yeah, it's real.
Joe Rogan:
It's real in that there are these things that are moving in very bizarre ways and they have these propulsion systems that violate what we know about propulsion systems.
[Rogan switches to reading some of a document they are discussing about a special access government program called Kona Blue, which was recently de-classified. ]
“Retrieving data across dimensional space-time, developing remote viewing comms and countermeasures, determining baseline for physical transport across dimensional space-time barrier, rapid response medical teams for UFO interaction events.”
Joe Rogan:
So how did they do this accidentally?
“Study conscious interactions with and control of technology?”
Tucker Carlson:
So I got this from someone in the U.S. government who's, well, look, let me just start by saying, you know, I don’t know anything. But he sent me this:
[looks at his phone to read]
"The above is 100% legit. I was read into this program but told never to tell anyone. It's now been released. As you can see, it began as a result of my old program, AATIP. I signed a document saying I would never talk about Kona Blue and similar efforts. I can't believe the AAR would have released it.”
Joe Rogan:
Yeah.
Tucker Carlson:
Here’s what we do know: there’s enough going on in the skies, but not just the skies—underwater—that the U.S. military has been forced to respond to it. Like, move aircraft from one place to another because there are too many of these objects in the sky. That’s actually happening…Chris Mellon [former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence] just wrote a long piece about it. So it’s real. The government is not controlling it. In fact, it’s forcing the government, DoD, to respond. And we know there is a real effort, and has been underway for a long time, to keep the public from knowing about it. But that’s all known. That's established. I don’t think any rational person would deny that. The question is, like, what is it actually? I mean, now is sort of the point where you have to ask, like, what is this?
Joe Rogan:
So how much do you think is ours?
Tucker Carlson:
Well, none of it’s ours.
Joe Rogan:
None of it?
Tucker Carlson:
Well, I don’t know. I mean, clearly, you know, the U.S. government is huge. It’s the largest human organization. I think there are 2 million federal employees and another 10 million federal contractors who are effectively government employees but don’t have civil service protection, for example. So that’s 12 million people in a country of 340 million working for the federal government. It’s kind of hard to overstate how big the federal government is and how well-funded it is. So to say "the government this, the government that"—no, of course, it’s people within the government. But, yeah, they’re working on all kinds of things, obviously, that are classified. But in general, no, they can’t control these objects. So, no, it’s not American technology. Or Russian or Chinese. It predates all of that.
Joe Rogan:
Well, some of it does, right? For sure, the Kenneth Arnold sightings, that was really early on. That was, like, the early 1950s. He was seeing these flying saucers, these disks that were moving over mountains.
Tucker Carlson:
Well, right. I mean, the prophet Ezekiel writes about it in the first chapter, "wheels in the sky."
Joe Rogan:
Yeah, that's a crazy one, boy.
Tucker Carlson:
Well, it is crazy. If you read it, it’s like, oh, wow. And not just the Hebrew scriptures, it’s all over every…
Joe Rogan:
The Vedic texts.
Tucker Carlson:
Of course. So these are spiritual phenomena. There’s no evidence they’re from another planet. I think that’s the lie—that they’re from Mars. Look, space, the atmosphere is really well monitored, right? Both for military, for defense reasons, but also because it would be nice to know when asteroids are coming. And there’s no evidence, there’s never been any evidence that there are lots of these objects, these vehicles coming into our atmosphere from somewhere else, some other planet. There’s no evidence of that at all.
Joe Rogan:
Hmm.
Tucker Carlson:
So they’re from here, and they’ve been here for thousands of years, whatever they are. And it’s pretty clear to me that they’re spiritual entities, whatever that means, or supernatural. And, which is to say, “supernatural” means “above the natural,” above observable nature. They don’t behave according to the laws of science as measured by people. And they’ve been here for a long time. And there’s a ton of evidence that they’re under the ocean and under the ground. So, like, with that fact set, what do you conclude?
Joe Rogan:
When did you start having this opinion that they were spiritual and that they've always been here?
Tucker Carlson:
Well, I didn’t know anything about the topic until 2017.
Joe Rogan:
Was that after the New York Times piece?
Tucker Carlson:
No, it was before. The things I saw... I mean, I was, and am still, a very conventional person. I’m 54. I grew up in this country, in California, which was like…like every assumption about America, I bought completely. Just completely. And I thought that everyone who questioned those assumptions was bad. I just bought into the system completely without even thinking about it.
And I imagined that I was some kind of free thinker, you know, going against the grain. But my core assumptions were just the assumptions fed to me by the culture and the government, and I didn’t even realize it. But anyway, I never really thought about UFOs at all. I had been in journalism since I was a kid, so of course I’d run into a lot of people with crazy views on a lot of different topics—UFOs, 9/11, circumcision—you know, like every whack job in the world you run into when you’re covering stuff.
Joe Rogan:
Fluoride.
Tucker Carlson:
Fluoride, right? [laughs]
I just brushed with non-fluoride toothpaste this morning.
Joe Rogan:
Me too.
Tucker Carlson:
[Laughs] Exactly. But probably unlike you, I didn’t have any opinions like that. I was like, "Fluoride? Come on." "9/11? Shut up." "UFOs? You’re fucking crazy." You know what I mean? I had this reflexive reaction. I’m ashamed of it; I’m not bragging about it. But it was 2017, and really it was the Trump campaign. It wasn’t that I was so in love with Trump, though I’ve always liked Trump because he was hilarious and charming and all that. But I wasn’t a "Trumper" or anything.
But it was watching that campaign, and particularly his claim that they were spying on him. I was like, "Really? The intel services and federal law enforcement, FBI, do not spy on presidential campaigns. That’s so out of the realm. That’s so crazy, that could never happen." Because, of course, there’s no democracy in a system like that. And fundamentally, we’re a democracy—an imperfect one that kind of lumbers along, but it’s not fake. And then that turned out to be true. And I knew it was true. And that just blew my mind.
So I began a process—still ongoing—of reassessing a lot of other things, like, "Okay, well, if that was not true, what else is not true?" And what else that they told me was a conspiracy theory might actually have some basis in fact? Then someone from the DOD reached out to me and said, "Actually, there’s a ton of evidence that this UFO thing is real."
[imitates his own response] “Really?!”
So I started doing segments on it when I worked at the TV channel. There was a lot of mockery, but I was like, “I don’t care! I’m just going to do this." And then, of course, as you know better than anyone, the second you start talking about something, people start reaching out to you. Some of them are deranged, but some of them aren’t at all. So I just started getting a lot of information from people and meeting with people, mostly in private. "Come to my house, let’s talk." And I decided, on the basis of what they told me—and then I talked to a lot of people about it—that actually this is really a very heavy-duty question. It’s not just the "little green men" question. It’s much bigger, and it’s really bad. It’s really dark.
And then I stopped. Then I was like, "I don’t want to know anymore. Because it’s not helping me. At all. As a person."
Joe Rogan:
What information did you get that made you feel like it’s dark?
Tucker Carlson:
It’s so dark.
Well, first of all, the deception is always bad. Lying is bad, and it’s bad not just in a legal sense—it can be illegal to lie—but it’s bad for you. It rots you. Being a liar makes you a bad person. When you lie, you are serving evil. There’s a moral quality to it that’s inescapable and very obvious. Only advanced civilizations ignore that. Lying is bad. And so, if you have lying at scale, which we have on this topic, it’s inherently bad.
Okay, so that’s the first level. The deeper level is, if they’re spiritual beings, which I believe they are—it's binary: you’re either on Team Good or Team Bad. You can assign any name to it you want, but what are these things? Are they good or bad? And I think some of them are bad.
And if the U.S. government knows that? Elements or people in the U.S. government know that, then they’re serving a bad force.
Joe Rogan:
When you say spiritual, what makes you draw that conclusion that they're spiritual?
Tucker Carlson:
Spiritual may be the wrong word—supernatural. They’re beyond nature as we understand it. I mean, obviously they are. Just chart their physical behavior. It goes outside of what we understand about physics. No visible means of propulsion, coming at indescribable speed, hitting the ocean, continuing at speeds that are impossible undersea.
I mean, in other words, if I take a 9mm round, a 7.62x39 and shoot you at 50 yards underwater in a swimming pool, and it’s even more intense in salt water because it’s denser, you can catch the bullet. If it even makes it to you. Right?
So if you have a craft, an object underwater that’s traveling at 500 knots as measured by sonar, right there you’re challenging our understanding of physics. What is that? How can that be?
Joe Rogan:
They’ve tracked that? They’ve tracked things going 500 knots under the sea?
Tucker Carlson:
Yeah, really, yeah. Much much faster than any object can actually go undersea. Oh for sure. Oh yeah. There’s a lot of stuff going on underwater. There’s video of these things coming out of the sky into the water, and also emerging from the water.
Joe Rogan:
Right, but it’s all so blurry, though. That trans medium video.
Tucker Carlson:
I don’t think some of it’s that blurry. I think some of it’s crystal clear.
Joe Rogan:
We just don’t have access to it? Is that what you mean?
Tucker Carlson:
Yeah.
Joe Rogan:
We just haven’t seen it?
Tucker Carlson:
Correct.
Joe Rogan:
So they have some stuff?
Tucker Carlson:
For sure.
There’s just a lot going on underwater, and it’s measured. So whatever. I mean, this is like the most obvious, observable level of it. But then you just ask yourself, "What is this actually?"
And, you know, if there’s been extensive knowledge of this for decades, like maybe 80 years at least, if not going back to the '30s—90 years—to what end? There are two possible explanations. The first is the one you often hear, which is: "This is so heavy that if the public were to know about it, it would be disruptive. It would be too scary. You don’t want to scare people for no good reason. There’s nothing we can do about it." You also don’t want to suggest that the U.S. military isn’t capable of protecting the country. The homeland. And it does suggest that.
If you can’t control these objects in your airspace—and that’s known—they can’t. That’s known. Okay, then that’s a limit to the power of the U.S. military. You don’t want to tell people that, because then they won’t believe that they’re safe. I get it.
But then there’s a deeper level, which is: what’s your relationship with these things? What is the U.S. government’s relationship with these things? And there’s evidence that there is a relationship, and it’s longstanding. And that raises a lot of questions about intent. What is that?
I just personally decided... People have been hurt by these things. That’s a fact. It’s a knowable, it’s a provable fact. And killed. I’m not saying millions of people have been killed by these things, but people have been killed. It’s known because it’s working its way through the courts, out of the VA system. An object that is by definition supernatural—above the laws of nature as we understand them—and has resulted in deaths of people... We don’t spend enough time thinking about what that adds up to.
Not good, actually. Not good.
Joe Rogan:
How many people do you think have died from these things?
Tucker Carlson:
I don’t know.
Joe Rogan:
Is it radiation sickness? What is it?
Tucker Carlson:
So the person that I talked to... I interviewed someone who was a Stanford Medical School professor. Who’s out there and worth talking to by the way.
Joe Rogan:
You talking about Garry Nolan?
Tucker Carlson:
That’s exactly who I’m talking about. He was effectively an expert witness in these cases. He’s an expert in brain injury. You know him?
Joe Rogan:
Yeah.
Tucker Carlson:
Yeah, entirely credible person, checks all the boxes that I care about. He’s got patents. So he’s, like a lot of Stanford university professors, he’s independently rich. He flew to…I live in a remote place, and he flew to my place at his own expense because he wanted to tell this story. He’s got no profit motive here. He’s the most highly credentialed person at the university, practically—Stanford Medical School — we consider that a big deal. And he’s worked on this for over 10 years, assessing the injuries to U.S. servicemen from being in close proximity to these objects or having contact with these objects. His conclusion, as you know because you’ve talked to him, is there’s some kind of energy coming off these things that scrambles people’s brains or kills them.
It’s not exactly radiation, at least in his telling to me. So anyway, but the point is, people have died.
Joe Rogan:
Yeah
Tucker Carlson:
And. So, you know. It does raise a lot of questions about, like, “What the hell? American citizens have died, and you’re hiding it? Why are you hiding that? Why would you hide that?”
Joe Rogan:
Perhaps because they don’t have any explanations.
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